User talk:Ryulong
Ruby We use ruby for every ateji, like many Wikis do. Don't change that. 12:52, November 26, 2015 (UTC) :You're using the Ruby wrong. It's not used on the romaji. And "ateji" is a very particular thing. It's how 亜米利加 means "America". クロスウォーズ over 巡り合いの戦い is furigana meant to completely change 巡り合いの戦い to be read as クロスウォーズ.—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:59, November 27, 2015 (UTC) ::Please, keep the discussion here. It's better to keep everything in one place so it's easier for others to read in the future. ::I may have got the term ateji wrong, but you understood what I meant. We use "Meguriai no Tatakai" and etc. because we should also inform what is the normal reading of the thing. ::And you edit warred with two admins. Next time an admin reverts your edits, bring it up on a talk page instead of immediately redoing your edit. Next time will be considered vandalism. 14:00, November 27, 2015 (UTC) :::The "normal reading" is of no importance to the context of Digimon. All that's important is that 巡り合いの戦い(クロスウォーズ) is read as "Xros Wars".—Ryulong (琉竜) 23:54, November 27, 2015 (UTC) ::::That's...not true at all. The series often uses ateji in specific circumstances, not universally, to clarify the meaning of the kana, rather than the other way around. "Xros Wars" is gibberish, because "Xros" is a made-up word. Covering the literal meaning of the under-kanji adds meaning. Whether or not other sites use ruby that way is of no important to us -- we are using it to convey additional information. 05:55, November 28, 2015 (UTC) :::::You fundamentally misunderstand the intent of furigana (again "ateji" is different). Furigana is meant to give the way the Japanese text is meant to be read in the particular context of this work of fiction. When you see it is only supposed to be read as "Kurosu Woozu" (I don't feel like copying the macron O). In the context of Digimon Xros Wars, it is never read as "Meguriai no Tatakai" so it is entirely pointless to provide that text primarily and not "Kurosu Woozu". In your quest to provide complete information you're providing the wrong information.—Ryulong (琉竜) 06:41, November 28, 2015 (UTC) :::Except that's not how Digimon uses it. "ロイヤルナイツ" is used in 99 out of 100 appearances of the term. "守護騎士" is used in one, and not even the first one, to provide somewhat of an in-joke. It's not a gotdamn pronunciation guide. Stop edit warring, this is your last warning. 07:07, November 28, 2015 (UTC) ::::Additional example: 千年魔獣 for Millenniumon, used on a single page of the Xros Wars manga. It's fundamentally not the character's actual name, it's a description. It's basically the logical opposite of furigana, because the kanji is being added as a meaning guide, rather than the kana being added as a pronunciation guide. Digimon is doing something unusual with this, we are providing that information for the reader's benefit, end of. 07:11, November 28, 2015 (UTC) :::::So why bother including 守護騎士 when it's ロイヤルナイツ 99.9% of the time? It's pointless. Just use . Basically you're providing factually incorrect information for the sake of being a Japanese language nerd. And that's coming from me.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:38, November 28, 2015 (UTC) :::::And maybe turn this shit into a forum page so I can actually show you and G-Santos how incredibly wrong and pedantic you are being over something you don't even know the proper Japanese terminology for. If you can't tell the difference between ateji and furigana then I certainly have my work cut out for me.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:42, November 28, 2015 (UTC) :So just because I got one term wrong I'm automatically ignorant of everything on the issue. :In any case, you were blocked for one week for edit warring. We told you multiple times to not do this. Next time an admin undoes your edits, bring it up on a talk page. 13:37, November 28, 2015 (UTC) :On an unrelated side note. Regarding "copying the macron O", the edit tools have an option to insert special characters in the text. 15:02, November 28, 2015 (UTC) ::No you just happen to be ignorant about both things.—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:16, November 29, 2015 (UTC) ::Śŏ ïţ đǫəś.—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:16, November 29, 2015 (UTC) :::... :::#Our job is to provide information about Digimon to the readers. :::#This is information about Digimon :::#??? :::#Profit :::I really don't see what's so difficult to understand about that. The information is factually correct -- the topics are given these descriptions in canon material. There's no "Ruby MoS style" that we're violating, just your own aesthetic preferences. If you would like to suggest a more aesthetically-pleasing way to present the information, that's certainly your prerogative -- but per our mandate, the information will be presented, and so far, your alternatives have not been aesthetically pleasing. Go ahead and create a forum displaying your proposed solutions and invite the community to pick between them -- do NOT keep trying to shove your version of the page through. 19:02, November 29, 2015 (UTC) ::::It's not information about Digimon. It's trivial garbage about the Japanese language that has nothing to do with Digimon. The literal reading of the kanji used for one instance of the word "Xros Wars" or "Royal Knights" isn't relevant to the overall coverage of Digimon. You can point out that the words aren't normally read that way but you shouldn't put that reading first. Just have a footnote that says "巡り合いの戦い" is usually read in Japanese as "Meguriai no Tatakai" but in Digimon it's read as "Kurosu Wōzu".—Ryulong (琉竜) 23:56, November 29, 2015 (UTC) :::::Because that's not what's going on. It's a gag being done in a single manga, in single panels, for names that have already been given elsewhere in katakana. It's not meant to be a pronunciation guide. Have you read the manga these are being taken from? 01:32, November 30, 2015 (UTC) ::::::If it's a gag then why bother using it as an official fucking name?—Ryulong (琉竜) 06:06, November 30, 2015 (UTC) :::::::We're not. We're providing it for completeness in addition to the official name, in the exact format the gags used them. Since it's obvious from their usage that they are not being used as pronunciation guides, we are not interpreting them as pronunciation guides. Ruby is the most aesthetically pleasing method we've found so far to convey the information, but per our mandate, the information will be conveyed, so just deleting it is not an option. :::::::Read the manga so that you are familiar with the usage the situations are covering. It should be fairly easy to find a copy in any Japanese-langauge bookstore -- I got the wiki's copies in Chicago. Think up some alternate presentations, start a forum, lay them out. Ask for comment and go over the pros and cons of each of your proposals. :::::::As far as your block is concerned, the policy is to rescind those as soon as we see you recognize that you were violating a site policy and will not be doing that again, so just familiarize yourself with the 3RR rule from wikipedia and we should be golden. 14:05, November 30, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::I shouldn't have to read the manga to say that or is really fucking ugly looking. Ruby is only meant to provide the proper reading of CJK texts. That means that there shouldn't be two readings of the same set of words. As it stands you're posting the wrong info because it's entirely unnecessary and factualy incorrect to include the original literal pronunciation of Japanese text augmented by furigana in Ruby formatting. Regardless of whatever manga you've read, is only supposed to be parsed as "Kurosu Wōzu". If your mandate says that "Meguriai no Tatakai" should be included, then it should be done in a way that doesn't detract from conveying the information that is "Kurosu Wōzu". And I will gladly repeat this shit on whatever damn page you want me to. Same with that Mochidzuki garbage. God no one uses dzu anymore. The only place it exists is in the name of the kudzu plant but even then that was the regular zu and not voiced tsu.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:42, December 1, 2015 (UTC) ::You really should read the manga before making noises about what the fiction is trying to demonstrate. Because if you're not, the only evidence you could conceivably bring to the table is either wowing the rest of the community with the beauty of your alternative implementation, or providing some kind of MLA format guideline forbidding us from depicting the exact thing the manga did. Because it simply does not jive that this guy's name is "officially" written as "千年魔獣" when every other source, including that manga itself, calls it "ミレニアモン" (and every other creature character in the series uses katakana) when not showing that single panel of the manga. I fully agree that it's not kosher use of furigana -- I don't agree that that means we should either ignore it completely, pretend it is kosher, or claim that Millenniummon is a "translation" of the name. ::"Mochidzuki", the name, spelled as such, has been used in professional papers as recently as 2000. I posted a source on the talk page. Like I proposed on that page, revising the romanization standard this wiki uses will require community support, not unilateral action, and should involve reasoned discussion between all interested editors. ::Commit to not edit warring anymore, and you will be immediately unblocked and able to start a forum laying out alternatives. Until you've made the merest token effort to demonstrate that you're not going to go straight back to edit warring the articles, this whole process is on hold. 20:03, December 1, 2015 (UTC) :::I shouldn't have to read a manga to know how to read Japanese and parse it properly. If is what shows up then obviously that's written down but it's Mireniamon and not Sennenmajū. Unless the name of a particular Millenniummon in the manga happens to be Sennenmajū then that's something else entirely (like how Zeromaru is an individual Veedramon). But for something like Roiyaru Naitsu or Kurosu Wozu why fucking bother? :::Also, one person's decision to write their name in English one way doesn't affect the entirety of the pronunciation of the language.—Ryulong (琉竜) 00:59, December 2, 2015 (UTC) ::::You'd really think you wouldn't, wouldn't you? But here we are. ::::*3,280 results for romanizing "望月" as Mochidzuki ::::*383,000 results for romanizing "望月" as Mochizuki ::::All you're being asked to do is say "I will not continue to edit war." 02:48, December 2, 2015 (UTC) :::::dzu is rare by your own metric. That's 1%, when much of it is affected by archaic forms of transliterating the regular zu. :::::And there's not really any incentive for me to say anything considering it's only a one week block and I'll tire of this bullshit in 2 more days so long as I don't keep getting notifications you or G-Santos are posting here and then I'll come back a year later and make the same edits but this time have people actually listen to what I have to say, just as happened at w:c:bleach: over w:c:bleach:Sui-Feng.—Ryulong (琉竜) 03:13, December 2, 2015 (UTC) ::::::That's unfortunate. Well, the block has been revised accordingly, same rules as ever still apply. 04:21, December 2, 2015 (UTC) :::::::I did repeatedly tell you that I would gladly argue pointlessly in whatever forum you wanted two days ago though. But be that way Kryten. Fuck up your wiki over semantics.—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:54, December 2, 2015 (UTC) #You were asked to confirm that you understood edit warring is against the rules, and that you would not continue to do it. Instead, you said that you would "make the same edits". #You weren't asked to "argue" in a forum (where the community can see it, not just the admins who are trying to explain your block to you), you were asked to display the alternatives for the community to discuss, so that instead of continuously making an edit that misunderstands what actually happened in the publication, then being reverted, and everyone gets frustrated at each other, we could all have a reasoned discussion and be on the same page. That's the entire point of the Forum and the Talk pages, to avoid edit warring. #Same rules I stated earlier apply. You were indef blocked because of your stated intention to go back to edit warring once the existing block expired. There's nothing preventing you from becoming a productive member of the community if you're willing to commit to respecting other editors. You are being given an exceedingly simple request. 14:49, December 2, 2015 (UTC) :No I said that by the time the block expired I would have given up bothering here until I came across the site in like a year and tried to get the same shit done but possibly at a time when it wasn't seen as intentionally disruptive because all this shit is is fucking wrong and I' trying to convey that and I will say this in a proper forum rather than immediately doing the edits over again. Stop being a dick Kryten.—Ryulong (琉竜) 23:39, December 2, 2015 (UTC) ::You've been unblocked. Do the forum. 17:07, December 3, 2015 (UTC)